THE WORLD IS BEAUTIFUL

by **Paul** Thu 25 Jun 2015, 11:33 pm

About the members in the website . Not all of them are from our CC . Some are from other CC's . Some are from no CC . Some don't even belong to WGT and do not even play online golf .

When I started to build what is still in progress . I had only a few things certain in my mind . One of them was that members there could use it for many things different things everyone is different .

I stared putting out the word to people in the CC that there was something there that they could use for some reason or an other and all they had to do was register and give it a chance and I thought each person would find some thing of interest there and therefore have a reason to visit it it on occasion .

I got no responses . No one not even signed up . I kept messaging politely for people to check it out . Then a few registered . Cool I thought . But then nothing . So I started messaging stil politely about how much work I was putting in to it and if they could please just check it out . A few more registered . Then I started asking for CC members to respond to me with something .

Because at the same time . There were about 50 members that weren't even playing in the CC tourneys . And not responding .

That not responding to the owner thing got to me . It was just disrespectful . Just answer me one way or another . All the while I am still trying to encourage them to play in the CC tourneys and if they weren't going to . Please message me why .

Many of you remember this becaase over 50 of you did play in the CC tourneys and did message me once in a while .

But again for the second time in building this CC I was faced with having to remove a bunch of deadbeats that just weren't ever going to play . So be it .

Not that easy . I still had the issue of members playing , but never I mean never responding to anything I sent them .

That's not all . There were also guys that played , and messaged me once in a while but I couldn't get them to register in the site .

I thought that was important . What could it hurt that they register in a website that me the owner has been building for them to be able to access things that might be important to them .Things not found in WGT or maybe just easier and more user friendly in our site . Who knows what ? Like I said everyone is different . But I was sure if I could just get them to sign up they would find something of interest .

I really expected E1 to do this voluntarally . Not a big fan of forced actions or rules . But that obviously wasn't happening .

Quite a few members had already suggested that I just make them . It was my club if they didn't like it . They could go somewhere else .

That was when I came up with the " 3 conditions " Sometime in November 2014 .

There are only 3 very easy requirements to join this CC :

1) Participate in CC tourneys

2) Communicate with owner just enough to know you are human

3) Register in our website / forum

Which then led to the 1 month notice , 2 weeks , 1 week and finally December 31st .

It was then that I removed about 40 members . ( for the second time the year before i had removed 54 all at once . ) But this time it came with this message . A lot of you don't know because you never got it .

" You are regretfully being removed from VOTSCC for the reason of , lack of communication with the owner . Numerous attempts to contact you have resulted in no reply . Therefore I assume you no longer care to be a part of our CC ."

Regretfully Paul

May the SUN always be with you

Resign Clause :

If after removal you realize what little I asked was worth the small effort to stay in such an accomodating CC . If you then have a change of heart and wish to return and agree to the only three conditions that I have . Then I will gladly accept you back . As a recruit until you have played , messaged me with your intent , and registered in the website forum . Those are the three NEW conditions neccessary for membership .

So here we are . Me still thinking I don't ask much . Playing WGT CC tourneys is a given . Have to do that .

Messaging me is a given . If that means telling me why you can't or don't do something . That is what I am talking about . In fact someone who messages me and tells me why he can';t play more is in a better position than someone who plays everyday and cannot take a minute to drop me a line . To just say hey or boo .

Now the hard part . The website . Yes I said all you have to do is register there . My dumbass thinking once you saw it , you would find something you liked and knowing how I felt would probably go back now and then .

That was the least I thought would occur . I was wrong again .

Hence the current "If you are on this list " . Which is a list that shows a members last visit and how many times totally . The list I posted is only a partial list of the members who have only been there 0 , 1 , or 2 times . There are more .

Of course that means my plan isn't working . for some of you . There are many that use it frequently . I mean all the time . I see some arranging games in the chat . Some are definitely just reading because they are ther for a while . A bunch of us use use the embedded live brackets for our weekend tourneys . Some post jokes ,read jokes . Many have thanked me for the tutorials , calculators , meters and links .

Obviously there are some that find no use for it at all . If that is the case then you need to message me and tell me so I can take you off the removal list . Reluntantly I might add . Because i am getting lots of messages saying " just get rid of them Paul Hell with them . If they don't want to get with the program remove them . "

I have not decided to do that yet . And might not . But maybe I will . It depends again on whether you respond to me or not . One way or another . If you message me and tell me you are gonna be a little more active . gr8 . If you tell me you just don't have the time . gr8 . But E1 has to tell me something . Please .

Better stop now before my wife removes me .

Thank you Paul

by **Paul** Fri 26 Jun 2015, 12:21 am

Rules . Is not and has not ever been on my favorites list .

When I first started running my CC . A lot of players signed up fairly quickly . Started making tourneys and not getting much participation . Tried to communicate with members.

Found out there was no such thing . So I started posting messages on each players wall .Real polite stuff with pleases and thank you's . Not easy with , at that time , 80 members .

At least I knew then that at some point they would look on their wall and get mt messages . Just asking them if they would please participate in CC tourneys . Thank you..

Also a message explaining that the " email all members" does not work in our club and if they could please respond . We could start a member / owner communication .

Still nothing . Next couple of messages explained that I would like them to play at least one tourney a month .

Still nothing . Then I messaged that it is required to play at least once a month .

Nothing . So . If you don't participate you will regretfully be removed from the club .

Finally I deleted 53 members all at once . Leaving 15 original members and 10 other good ones that joined a couple months later .

Another member and myself started a recruiting spree . This time screening a little more carefully explaining that participation was mandatory . Much like most other CC's I'm sure . I waited until i had seen some participation before I made them members .

We are back up to about 65 members now . Which for me is plenty . Especially if they are good participating , communicative , semi accessable , non complaining members.

Which they are not .

Which finally brings me to my topic lol . Sorry about the pain . not .

I'm thinking that a couple rules might need to be implemented .

Because I could care less about CC points or XP points . I just want good participating , communicative , semi accessable , non complaining members.

That respect an owner enough to respond to a small request .

A rule that disallows ignoring the owner . That's what it boils down to . I'm not trying to pry into their lives or be their buddies .

But I put a lot of time into trying to make it a good CC experience for them . Hell I don't have any time to play . My consecutive days played resets to ZERO a couple times a week anymore .

Disrespecting the owner by not participating in CC events . And not responding to inquiries . Will now result in consideration for immediate removal .

Rules to live live by in my CC LOL

by **Paul** Fri 26 Jun 2015, 1:09 am

It's logical , practical , and necessary to have all members on the forum roster .
There are a number of reasons why , but mainly as i prepare to plan for various multiplayer tournaments I will be making mock brackets and test rosters to be sure the various match ups are fair .
This will be done from that forum because it provides the formats in which to do so . So it is imperative that i have the list of who is available so I can actually plan for these tourneys and do it right and have some sort of a chance of pulling it off .
That is only one of the reasons I need your names there . Othrs are for statistics , records and other breakdowns that could be interesting or helpful for everyone at somepoint .
So if you think I was just asking you just because I have this website and am trying to force some B S on you . No I have been working on this stuff not for me but to have cooler SHIT for us .
I am sure if you aren't sure about these tourneys that if we all give it a good effort . That we are gonna like it .
I'll do most of the work . All you have to do is sign and show up .
So please at least sign up . It will still be a long time as I have a lot more preparing to do .
Thank you
Paul

by **Paul** Sat 27 Jun 2015, 7:05 am

There have been several periods of time Since I started this CC . Where I had decided to make more effort to connect and communicate with all the members . Try to get a response from each one . I always know it won't happen overnight or even a week or a month . The biggest time was when I waited and tried to get something from them for 6 weeks of asking them to reply . That bunch didn't even play CC tourneys . They never responded at all or played . So I removed 54 that time .

Another time was several months later at the end of 2014 . I had never stopped trying to connect with them . Still only got about half the CC to respond . And most of them just emailed me with Hey Paul . We good ?

In this first week that this request to respond has been up . 23 of you have responded here . There are a few that have emailed me only and still never have posted here in this thread or any where else in this forum along with 28 other members that I never even get an email from much less a forum response .

I am not going to list and prove all of the many things that occur here every week that everyone needs to know . It has already been proven .

When everyone joins I ask to please keep current in the forum . It is posted on the forum home page and in the Game client homepage . You can't miss it . You can't know about things that you need to know if you don't at least come here for a couple minutes and read about them . And if you do come and read about stuff and never post a boo . Isn't it the same as never coming here ? Yes I believe it is .

Yesterday in the website . A guy says . I log into the chat every time I come here . I told him not to bother . That usage is slim to none and people have other reasons to come here other than chat . Then I scanned the archives of the chat and saw quite a few of us talking to ourselves there lol for a few lines and someone else and so on . But the guy I was talking to had never made an entry ( we weren't in the chat ) . So I said if you are going to log in all the time why don't you just say Hi or something . For one thing it would validate that you had been there and no questions asked . Another is the more activity people see there the more incentive there is to use it .

The website has nothing to do with this forums importance . But you can see my point . If I havn't ever seen you post here . But you say you come here all the time like that guy the other day ASZDF??? whatever . And I have never seen him here . Have you ? He did email me thanx for a couple trophy's in over a year . That's his proof that he participates all the time . I think there are 28 more that must think that way too . I hope you guys are smarter than that . Because I am . For sure .

I will wait and continue to make my plea to make a post in this forum . For much longer . a couple few more weeks . OK ? Even if you consider what I am asking as trying to convert you into something . Is the 5 or 10 minutes per month that I am asking really so bad that you will never give in ? Because in the end if you just plain old won't be more of a visible part of this CC . With all of the other communication glitches I have to deal with here in WGT . Communication is the key . If you just won't communicate at all then this for you has all been for nothing .
fk it

by **Paul** Sat 27 Jun 2015, 3:55 pm

pdb1
3,081 Posts 03-02-2015 7:47 PM

WGTadmin2:
Kaloke - that is a good idea, email has a lot of 3rd party delivery issues that WGT does not control. I will make the in game message suggestion to the product team.

9 months later . How about a follow up to the CC members mass email and other related issues .Please . I am just so damn frustrated . It's not right that many of us cannot communicate with CC members at all .

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DaddysKat
3,524 Posts 03-07-2015 9:04 AM

I figured it's time to bump this, since the only thing CC's have gotten since the initial change has been Country Club Clashes.
WGT ... do you think you can put a little effort into the CC's? A CC Bank (coming soon) ... ability for an owner to assign duties to their directors (coming soon). Let's get 'er done WGT! Enough of the lip service!

I had this crazy idea regarding how to give directors the ability to help the owner while we wait for WGT to actually do something positive for the CC's. It's just another work-around, but I think it could work.
Since WGT doesn't seem to care if you have multiple accounts, what if you did the following: Setup a new member and transfer ownership to it, then give the password to your directors so they can log in as the owner and assist?
It's a stretch, but it's been nearly a year since WGT started selling pipe dreams to the club owners and directors. At least this type of multi could prove to be a good thing for the benefit of the CCs and their members.

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pdb1
3,081 Posts 03-07-2015 2:41 PM

DaddysKat:
regarding how to give directors the ability to help the owner while we wait for WGT to actually do something positive for the CC's.

I agree on this also . Very important issue . I don't get the wait either . How hard is it to add 1 or 2 owner admin accounts to each CC ? There are CC's 5 times the size of mine with 1 owner privelages . Has been forever . There has also been a high turn over rate of club owners . I wonder why .
BTW there is myself and my director . But it says I am only using 2 of 4 officers . What are the other two ? Does it really even matter if there are no admin rights ?

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mantis0014
6,812 Posts 03-07-2015 3:28 PM

Just wondering what duties would the other admins do or have the ability to do.
I have a small club and have 4 others helping out with different things like starting comps, doing h/caps comp stats etc. We have an open PM thread with the 5 of us, so we all talk to each other with ideas and stuff like that on the one thread.
What would be the duties that I could set for other admins that they don't already do now.
-Roger

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pdb1
3,081 Posts 03-07-2015 4:21 PM

Depending of course on how active the club is of course . And how large . I have had the unfortunate luck of having many non active , unwilling to participate , refuse to respond to my inquiries type of members .
As the only interested party in my CC in that regard . I have spent probably dozens if not hundreds of hours trying to communicate and encourage members to participate . Very unsuccessfully for the most part and eventually having to remove such members . In total nearly 200 over time . 40 or 50 at a time .
Think about how much time it would take to message each member individually on their wall not once not twice but three or four times . Getting no response . Eventually removing them . I have to message each member individually because the email all members does not work at all in my CC . Forum threads seem to reach only the half a dozen very dedicated and very active members I do have . So messaging a member on their wall is the only option left . Either they never look on their wall or they can claim they never look . But that gets no response either .
It boils down to I came in too late . Anyone that was going to be an active CC member is already in a CC . I check the tournament rosters which is the only place that lists players not belonging to a CC . 99 % of those players have been on WGT for 4 , 5 , or 6 years and have 0 or 1 or 2 friends . These are not good candidates for a CC . But I have managed to get that 100th player to join . The one with 741 friends that just happened not to be in a CC at the time .
My point is recruiting isn't easy either . All of which takes a lot of time . Getting members to play consistantly in CC tourneys is hard enough . Beyond that , like communicating , or participating in other events , volunteering any of their time . Just isn't easy for some CC's . Those are a few of the other ares that an owner could use some assistance , aside from the ones you mentioned .

by **Paul** Sat 27 Jun 2015, 3:56 pm

mantis0014:
We have an open PM thread with the 5 of us,

That is very nice . I think I have a PM with 2 of my active members . With the messaging system admittedly broken also . There is no guarantee that if I deleted 300 very good friends from my list . That if I did that and then tried to add 50 CC members that that would even work . Not willing to sacrifice some thing that I know works in WGT for something that I know probably doesn't work in WGT . But I would if It was certain to be a successful result .

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mantis0014
6,812 Posts 03-08-2015 2:21 PM

pdb1:

mantis0014:
We have an open PM thread with the 5 of us,

That is very nice . I think I have a PM with 2 of my active members . With the messaging system admittedly broken also . There is no guarantee that if I deleted 300 very good friends from my list . That if I did that and then tried to add 50 CC members that that would even work . Not willing to sacrifice some thing that I know works in WGT for something that I know probably doesn't work in WGT . But I would if It was certain to be a successful result .

You have way too many friends on your list and you have to get that under 250 or will have trouble with sending messages and even seeing friends when they are online.
That's one thing Wgt can fix....lol
With the multi person Pm... I had to get another one of my admin group to start it. I think you have to have less than 50 friends, then the Wgt system allows you to add more than one person to the Message
I don't think I would like anybody else having the power to boot somebody from the club, but I suppose with big clubs, having the ability to do that is good.
-Roger

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pdb1
3,081 Posts 03-08-2015 2:52 PM

mantis0014:
You have way too many friends on your list and you have to get that under 250 or will have trouble with sending messages and even seeing friends when they are online.

That's what they say . I tried it once and still could not open the PM's in my club . So Ive decided it just doesn't work . I think the program that is being used just cannot handle the load or all the features that are neccessary for membership this enormous . For all of the tens or hundreds of thousands of supposed members , maybe millions . To have a program that limits the number of friends to 255 is just plain ridiculus . When the potential numbers that one could store for future reconnection is in the thousands . I have had to delete a couple thousand over time to keep my number where it is . Way under 500 . It's been at 700 a couple times . Ive seen many members with many more than that . Give me a break . Get out of the cave man era and modernize this *** .

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pdb1
3,081 Posts 03-08-2015 2:57 PM

mantis0014:
I don't think I would like anybody else having the power to boot somebody from the club,

LOL What the heck does that mean ? There are plenty of members in my club that have enough sense to handle that task . I do it all because I am the only one with the rights .

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DaddysKat
3,524 Posts 03-08-2015 9:04 PM

mantis0014:
Just wondering what duties would the other admins do or have the ability to do.

I'm the tourney director for our little CC; and more than half of the PMs I send to the owner are "Can you give this post a bump, please" ... another 10th or so is ... can we get rid of these forum post please? (tourney announcements from a month or two ago).
Those are just a couple of duties I can't do. Yeah, I can write up forum posts and start tourneys, but it would be nice if I didn't have to bother the owner for petty little tasks like these.

by **Paul** Sat 27 Jun 2015, 5:02 pm

alosso
11,784 Posts
11-29-2014 10:59 PM

IMHO, you must not beg as a owner but demand. Set up reasonable rules, publish them and enforce them.
Probably, that's not what you want, being a polite and considerate guy from what I see here. But it's the way it works.
You can't expect the same loyalty than in a RL club - players come and go and do mouseclicks in an online game without much thought. Many members have been active only for a few days, up to two weeks and turn away then. Others decide against the game after years and leave it without second thought of their friends or the CC.
I want consensus in the club, but how to achieve it without many responses? I have soon come to making rules of my own, e.g. who may enter (Pro+ now), who has to leave (longer inactivity, dayfly members), and who gets access to Super Passes (tier, activity, average).
Me thinks that my actions are reasonable, and from time to time I explain them in the CC forum and I consider any objections there, but they are rare.