THE WORLD IS BEAUTIFUL

by **Paul** Sun 05 Feb 2017, 2:43 am

JimQ916
4,366 Posts Sun, Nov 6 2016 10:53 AM

Hi everyone....about a month ago (maybe a little more than that) I went from TM to Legend, and when I did, my tees were moved back. I was a TM for quite awhile and was very (VERY) familiar with the default tees for TM and when I was moved back, it became a completely different ball game. My tee shot landing areas for L were further back (sometimes a lot of yards), bringing trouble (which I used to just fly over) into play, my angles were also different for my tee shots and in keeping with the domino effect, my 2nd shots were hit from spots further back than what was my usual (also bringing trouble into play when there was none before). Also, my landing areas on the greens changed to compensate for the longer clubs that I have to hit to get there, thus I'm now putting from spots I've never seen before, or even want to see. Par 5's became true par 5's, and a lot of par 3's became par 4's (yardage wise, not on the score card...it is still a 3 there). My average is now a little above 80 (yes 80), and the reason for that is that I played ranked rounds (instead of practice ones) while I was learning these new set ups, sometimes shooting unbelievable high scores that are counted against my average. I'm now becoming familiar with the set ups, so my average is coming down (at a snails pace though). I was wondering when my average will start to drop at a faster pace, and did a little digging. Here's what I found:

SATURATION / AVERAGE / TIER DEFAULTS

Hack Defaults: Easy (Front) Tees / Slow Greens (7 Stimp)

You need to play at least 5 ranked rounds as Hack to saturate.
When your average score is equal to or smaller than 100 you go from Hack to Amateur.

Amateur Defaults: Easy (Front) Tees / Standard Greens (8 Stimp)
You need to play at least 10 ranked rounds as Amateur to saturate.
When your average score is equal to or smaller than 80 you go from Amateur to Pro.

Pro Defaults: Medium (Middle) Tees / Fast Greens (9 Stimp)
You need to play at least 20 ranked rounds as Pro to saturate.
When your average score is equal to or smaller than 72 you go from Pro to Tour Pro.

Tour Pro Defaults: Medium (Middle) Tees / Very Fast Greens (10 Stimp)
You need to play at least 25 ranked rounds as Tour Pro to saturate.
When your average score is equal to or smaller than 67 you go from Tour Pro to Master.

Master Defaults: Hard (Back) Tees / Very Fast Greens (10 Stimp)
You need to play at least 40 ranked rounds as Master to saturate.
When your average score is equal to or smaller than 63 you go from M to Tour Master

Tour Master Defaults: Hard (Back) Tees / Torn Greens (11 Stimp)
You need to play at least 50 ranked rounds as Tour Master to saturate
When your average score is equal to or smaller than 61 you go from TM to Legend.

Legend Defaults: Hardest (Tips) Tees / Torn Greens (12 Stimp)
You need to play at least 500 ranked rounds as Legend to saturate.
When your average score is equal to or smaller than 60 you go from Legend to Tour Legend.

Tour Legend Defaults: Hardest (Tips) Tees / Championship Greens (13 Stimp)
You need to play at least 200 ranked rounds as Tour Legend to saturate.
When your average score is equal to or smaller than 59 you go from Tour Legend to Champion.

Champion Defaults: Hardest (Tips) Tees / Superfast Greens (13 Stimp)
You need to play another 200 ranked rounds as a Champion to saturate.
****You need to play an undisclosed number of additional rounds and receive an exclusive personal invitation before reaching Tour Champion****
No idea of what / or if Average is figured in moving up to Tour Champion, or where they hit from or putt on (maybe they hit from the parking lot or something and putt on glass)....I've yet to see such a beast. I'm sure they're are a few (only 1 actually) but I have to take WGT's word for it...it's sorta like Sasquatch and the Loch Ness Monster....never seen either one but I'm told they exist...Just for the record, I believe in neither of those...with the amount of people looking, and with today's technology, there has got to be a better picture / video of both of them....all I see are the same 2 - 3 grainy images....show me the $$$. Oh yeah, Crop Circles....don't get me started with that.

***HERE ARE A COUPLE DEFINITIONS AND WHAT THEY MEAN:***

SATURATE: In addition to it being a requirement to tier up, when you reach this point at a certain level, your average will only drop, never go up. This is because once you saturate, the highest round score you've already posted will be dropped and the lower score will be used....your average will then be recalculated just using just those scores. Your average would come down quickly when you start firing lower scores.
***Note to self....ranked rounds consist pretty much of stroke play "ranked" rounds be it CC Tournaments or multi player rounds (Stroke Play only). I can't find anything in the WGT Forum (or FAQ's) that give a straight answer about Match Play or rounds on the Par 3 or par 5 courses counting....I've read that yes they count, and I read that they do not count...bottom line is that I really learned nothing concrete about whether they count or not). I'm leaning toward yes, they count as long if completed but there is no concrete answer I can find. Even though I think they count, I'n going to treat them as not counting and play a lot of Stroke Play, which I know for sure count.

RANKED ROUNDS NEEDED: This is the amount of rounds needed to Saturate and/or advance....there is no where to see how many rounds you have at a particular Tier...you either have to look at your profile to see how many you have as soon as you tier up, then add to it what you need to saturate at that tier...you'll come up with your number then to reach that total, or you can just wing it...I chose to wing it and I'm sorry I did. I'm sure I'll know that I saturated when my average starts to plummet though!!!!! Some ranked rounds count, some don't....depends on the course played I think . Practice Rounds are not used, it has to be a ranked round.
***See "Note To Self" above concerning saturation***

AVERAGE SCORE: This is kinda self explanatory and goes hand in hand with saturating. Once you saturate, your average will start to come down, and when you saturate and start posting scores lower than your highest scores, this will happen very quickly. Keep in mind that when you advance in tiers, your average is wiped out and you start from scratch to establish it for the newer tier.....your pretty lil' ole 60's average is magically turned into a 90 in the blink of the eye. Practice, Brandon, Par 3 and Par 5 rounds are not used in the calculation of your average...all other courses do. It's my understanding that if you play a Match Play game against a higher level opponent and win, your average will come down a bit....if it's a member of an equal or lower tier, there is no change....it has to be a higher tiered member. If this is correct (I've read yes, I've read no, and I've read that it does for TM's and below, but once you reach Legend it doesn't....you choose)...this is the only way I can figure to manipulate the average system....play a higher tiered member in Match Play and have them lose on purpose.....THIS IS NOT IN THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME AND WOULD BE FROWNED UPON BY WGT AND IT'S MEMBERS!!!!! Your average would indeed come down (I think), but you'll know it's really not legit and you're going to move into a higher tier without really having the skills needed to be competitive at that level. Watch for what you wish for.

LEVELS: While not really addressed here, the "level" you, personally, are at is determined by the amount of XP's you have....this is not only the XP's you earn for the CC by using your free passes, it's the XP's earned for every round you play. This is used for 1 reason and 1 reason only...it unlocks equipment in the Pro Shop that you can purchase....NOTHING MORE / NOTHING LESS. The "level" our CC is at is determined by how many points are earned (contributed) to the CC by members using your passes....this is pretty much inconsequential to everyone other than Paul......reaching higher CC levels unlocks things directly related to running the CC, albeit Director Spots / Membership Limits / CC Tournament Limits / Super Passes (that are allocated during the Clash), and also the way WGT says they use to match us up in the Clash (this is BS though....we're at level 12 now and in the last Clash, we were playing a couple of CC's at level 19 or so). Clubs being at that high a level have either been around a long time, or have a lot of members, where they use their passes to score XP's for their CC...it has absolutely nothing to do with "skill level" of the CC, nor will it ever drop....they could be a club where they have 250 members at the hack level....as long as those 250 members contribute points for the CC (by using their passes) they will be at a higher level than a CC with 250 Champions that doesn't use their passes. We've been finishing high in the Clashes (top 25's) and that is very impressive considering we're a 43 (39 active) member CC playing against CC's with a lot more members...these higher level CC's no doubt have a lot higher membership than we have....strength in numbers is good during the Clash....us being so small and finishing so high says a lot about our club (specifically our members).
DEFAULT TEE PLACEMENT / GREEN SPEEDS: For each members' Tier level, there are different tees / green speeds used as "Defaults". As you can see above, something changes as you move up Tiers, be it the Tee Placement or Green Speeds....SOMETHING ALWAYS CHANGES!!!!

OK, that's it for me....this is just stuff I ran across when I was looking at the Tier requirements and the input of our members. Please note....I would not put my life on the line swearing to these things / requirements....but I sure as hell would throw you under the bus (lol). These are the things I found in the WGT Forum...there was other conflicting info, but these are the concensous. If you have any questions / concerns, you know where we live....just post here in the Forum and you'll get the info you want, or if we don't know the answer, we'll find it. I hope this helps someone (anyone)....I know it did me....Jim
pdb1
13,452 Posts Sun, Nov 6 2016 11:57 AM

Nicely amended Jim . I am going to pin this and move it to
HEY NOW: VOTSCC HOW TO's & TUTORIALS & FORUM INDEX (new )
Up near the top of this thread .
JimQ916
4,366 Posts Sun, Nov 6 2016 12:35 PM

Cool...I was hoping it wouldn't get buried. I knew some of this stuff and it's gonna help me when I set up some tournaments....really informative. I normally don't pay attention to my average, but was thinking about it, and that is the barometer (as well as Tier Level) I use to see about people I play to see if I'm in over my head or not. Let me know if I got anything wrong...not sure if you can edit someone Else's posts (I know you can delete them, but don't know about editing) so if you can't, let me know and I'll get it fixed. Have a great Sunday Paul (and everyone)....Jim
Damn I miss the Blitz on the weekends....I'm stuck with spending time with Terri (my wife)...oh wait, I like that....or so she says I do
DufferJohn7
611 Posts Sun, Nov 6 2016 1:02 PM

Jim,
A correction applicable to both of us. At Legend we need 500 ranked rounds to saturate and begin pulling down the WGT average. When that average equals or goes below 60 we move to Tour Legend.
To preserve my sanity I use a spreadsheet to keep a moving average of my scores for the last 50 and last 20 rounds. I have close to 400 ranked rounds as Legend with a WGT average just over 66, my 50 and 20 round moving averages are almost down to 65.
A long, long way to go!
But having fun and trying to hit 'em straight.
John
fairyqueen
84 Posts Sun, Nov 6 2016 1:48 PM

Very nice and very interesting
There is one thing more I noticed. If you play in a match game, it did count as a ranked game, but it did not show or added to your stats, where they show how many ranked games you played. I mean, it shows on my stats that I played only 16 ranked games, but i'm tour Pro. It should be around 30 to 35 now.
Just saying, and I won't promise it's all true
Charlie
pdb1
13,452 Posts Sun, Nov 6 2016 3:47 PM

fairyqueen:

Very nice and very interesting
There is one thing more I noticed. If you play in a match game, it did count as a ranked game, but it did not show or added to your stats, where they show how many ranked games you played. I mean, it shows on my stats that I played only 16 ranked games, but i'm tour Pro. It should be around 30 to 35 now.
Just saying, and I won't promise it's all true
Charlie

Yes C . You are absolutely correct . In general and for the most part . Match play rounds are not counted for anything . Not even stats . IE longest drives , putts , HIO's . None of that is recorded . They are not ranked . They are called scored . I try to explain this to everyone . And have much written about it in various links .
There is one very major advantage to playing match play rounds prior to the level of Legend .
WGT awards a very generous bonus to a player that can beat a player of a higher tier in a match play round . By dropping a couple few points off their average . That and gameplay experience are the only payoffs to playing match play .
Stroke play ranked rounds are where you build your stats and games played .
If you have read any of what I write . You will see many efforts to enlighten players about the advantages of playing the " unlimited play " stroke play rounds . Which are available in WGT and in CC's . The big difference is that the CC stroke play unlimited play rounds . Are custom made and therefore much easier and much more likely to help you improve your game play at a much faster rate . Much more fun too .
What does unlimited play mean ?
What this means is .
With out using unlimited play ;
One can play a round and finish it . That score will count . One can play again and maybe beat that score .
By using unlimited play correctly . One will play a round . Before the end of the 9th or 18th hole . One will click the " restart " button in options . Restart the round , play until you decide you are having a better or worse round and either finish or not . One can end the round right then and nothing that was just played will be recorded . Not even in your " Game Play Percentage " .Or you can restart the round again , 100 times and restart on any hole prior to the end of the 9th or 18th hole . Only the round you finish is the round that counts .
This " restart " button is purposely provided by WGT The " restart " button is there for that reason only . And only available in the unlimited play rounds . That is the way it is supposed to be used .
By utilizing the unlimited play mode . One can hone their skills , lower their average ( by selectively choosing the round that counts , by only finishing a round that is below your average ). That takes a lot of work . But is totally possible and fun because of the custom formats of our CC tourneys . Which are all unlimited play .
As opposed to multiplayer stroke play matches . Where every round counts . That is why our CC tourneys are the ultimate practice rounds . That prepare you for those tough multiplayer matches where you want to do well because that score will count .
Here is a little something I put together to put it in better perspective
9 SHADES OF GREY ( original post )
What I am saying is all correct . If you have any questions . Please ask .

Paul

You're welcome .
JimQ916
4,366 Posts Sun, Nov 6 2016 5:12 PM

I just went into the WGT Forum and FAQ's and learned a couple things....one is that you are all correct and 2nd that Paul spends A LOT of time in there...his posts are all over the damn place. I edited my post to incorporate the correct info I believe is true....when you read it and if you see something I am wrong about, or see I'm unsure about something, please clarify it and I'll get it corrected. This is really the 1st time I took a big time look at the WGT Forum..there is a bunch of good information there, and I used the search box to look for the things I wanted knowledge about and that helped in finding info. There is also a lot of members bickering about trivial stuff, so you have to skip all that crap and get to the things that are pertinent to the thread. Also, you're going to read varied "opinions" of numerous members...WGT does not really give any explanations as to how they figure someone's average...playing a game and not knowing the rules suks, but it is what it is. They had no problems taking the time to mess with one of our CC's best, and favorite, members to the point where she just said "screw it", quit fighting with them and just threw in the towel....I feel for her. If they took the same time to type a damn explanation of how they figure stuff and post it to the Forum and Frequently Asked Questions it would be time well spent. They state their reason for not making this info readily available is because if members actually knew how they calculate things, it would promote sand bagging....that's one of the dumbest thing I ever heard. If I wanted to sand bag, I would...even without knowing how the system really works...they must take us for idiots and feel we're incapable of finding a way to do it...Duh!!!
pdb1
13,452 Posts Sun, Nov 6 2016 7:43 PM

Jim you are right . A lot of opinions , ass holes and elbows . Beating around the bush . partial information , Instigators , provocateurs , BS artists . etc and me in there . Lol .
pdb1
13,452 Posts Sun, Nov 6 2016 8:22 PM

DufferJohn7:

Jim,
A correction applicable to both of us. At Legend we need 500 ranked rounds to saturate and begin pulling down the WGT average. When that average equals or goes below 60 we move to Tour Legend.
To preserve my sanity I use a spreadsheet to keep a moving average of my scores for the last 50 and last 20 rounds. I have close to 400 ranked rounds as Legend with a WGT average just over 66, my 50 and 20 round moving averages are almost down to 65.
A long, long way to go!
But having fun and trying to hit 'em straight.
John



First I am a little confused . I do not see an error with the Legend stats . But there is one with the Champion requirements

JimQ916:

Champion Defaults: Championship Tees / Championship Greens
You need to play another 500 ranked rounds as a Champion to saturate.
No idea of what Average is required to move to Tour Champion....I've yet to see such a beast. I'm sure they're are a few but I have to take WGT's word for it.

Where did you get this copy Jim ? Because it is blue I assumed you got it from the website and just added a few things . Although it may be an old one I never amended .
Where ever you got it I do not think WGT published it . When I first got the one I go off of . i was made by the guy i copied it from .
This is the correct version . I have been following this even more closely since the July 30 2015 update with the adding of the new Champion and Tour Champion tiers .
  You need to play at least 500 ranked rounds as Legend to saturated ( average stops going up ) before reaching Tour Legend.
When it is equal or smaller than 60 you go from Legend to Tour Legend.


You need to play at least 200 ranked rounds as Tour Legend to saturate ( average stops going up ).
When it is equal or smaller than 59 you go from Tour Legend to Champion .

You need to play another 200 ranked rounds as a Champion to saturate ( average stops going up ).

  You need to play an undisclosed number of additional rounds and receive an exclusive personal invitation before reaching Tour Champion.
_________________
May the SUN always be with you

WGTShamWow:

New Features:
So we now have two new Tiers, Champion and Tour Champion. The requirements for these are:
- Champion Tier is 200 ranked rounds in Tour Legend on top of what you have already played up until the 7/30 release.
-Like other tier requirements there is an average score required.
-Some of you may have noticed your Average change. Since there was no higher tier to move up to, there was a different calculation to your average. Now that there is a new tier to move up to, the calculation has changed which may have caused a higher average for some players. This change to average became visible after the next ranked round was played.
-Tour Champion is an invite only tier after Champion and will require quite a lot of playing to get to.

This above is what I base my numbers on .
As far as the TOUR Champion Tier .
Iconian who also works in admin .
And a dead guy . Are the only 2 T C's . Not likely there will be any others . As you can see the criteria is very steep . Lol . Up and down to be eligible .
........................................................................................................................................................

John you will find all this to be true . What i do not think is necessary is keeping count of your ranked rounds . 500 ranked rounds is the minimum amount of rr's required before being eligible for Legend tier .
The important number is the average . Like most players in WGT . With the exception of a very few exceptional players . It will take anywhere from 1,000 to 3,000 more ranked rounds to meet that 60 average . Keeping count gets old fast .
Mine is typical of many a majority of WGTers . I have played 2,000 plus rounds since Legend . And likely have about that many more to reach Tour Legend . You are probably a little better than average . So hopefully you can do it in half that many .
Sounds like a shockingly exaggerated number . But believe me . It is more realistic .

Paul

In other words . Be prepared for years rather than rounds .
JimQ916
4,366 Posts Mon, Nov 7 2016 7:45 AM

I got the info from the WGT Forum (the FAQ's were worthless when it comes to this). I found 1 post that I thought was pretty much correct and used that to as my baseline. It baffles me why there is no concrete info or posts in the Forum but as you know, there isn't. I just spent some time going to a bunch of posts to see if I could find something (anything) and decided that I'd go with what I found a majority saying. I had the Legend thing wrong (I had 200 rounds) and John helped me out with that and I fixed it....I just fat fingered the Champion round needed....I knew it was 200, but in my vast knowledge of the keyboard, hit the 5 instead of the 2 (I hunt and peck also), and I just fixed that. I know WGT keeps changing things but I think this is where they're at, at least for now anyway. I was just curious about what I needed to do to get my average down from my current 80....now I know....play, play, play!!!! I made the big mistake when I moved to legend, using ranked rounds to learn the new setups instead of practice rounds....live and learn I guess. I read a lot of post that say when they see a legend with a 70 average (let alone an 80) they immediately think they're sand bagging...damn, I wish I were. They don't mess around when it come to legend....500 rounds is absurd.....if you play 1 round a day (I'm lucky I can play more) it will take you close to 1 1/2 years to saturate....they most definitely plan on keeping members at that level for awhile. I gained a new found respect for our members who are TL's and C's...must have thrown their shoulders out playing and playing. I'm not sure the TC thing is a good thing though....WTF is an exclusive invitation and who are they allowed to play with / against at that level? All of our Champions (Cory / Turd / Harry / Keka / Lefty) have to be close to that level now....Wow!!!! If (more like when) they do move up to the "Super Elite", are they still going to be able play within the CC (CC Tournaments / Multi Player matches) or just play single play rounds, or rounds against other TC's (all 2 of them)? Ok, I fixed the Champion thing.....let me know if everything else is good....if not, let me know and I'll go in and fix it....have a great day....Jim
pdb1
13,452 Posts Mon, Nov 7 2016 12:22 PM

Yeah Jim it's very hard to get any information out of the WGT. There are a few informed it really do know what you're talking about.

As far as the Champions go I'm afraid they're stuck at that level probably forever there probably will not be any tour champion level 4 regular Folk.

Paul

Sent by my Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge
pdb1
13,452 Posts Mon, Nov 7 2016 12:22 PM

Yeah Jim it's very hard to get any information out of the WGT. There are a few informed it really do know what you're talking about.

As far as the Champions go I'm afraid they're stuck at that level probably forever there probably will not be any tour champion level 4 regular Folk.

Paul

Sent by my Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge
fairyqueen
84 Posts Mon, Nov 7 2016 1:53 PM

There is but 1 tour Champion on WGT
ICONIAN, How she made it, I don't know, but she are the only one.
Lvl 104
Best to check out her stats, you clever people can find something there, I don't see any
Char
harryskunk
1,524 Posts Mon, Nov 7 2016 2:00 PM

fairyqueen:

There is but 1 tour Champion on WGT

ICONIAN, How she made it, I don't know, but she are the only one.
Lvl 104
Best to check out her stats, you clever people can find something there, I don't see any
Char

thats true its a test for wgt opening this new tier just like the cc bank they can run but cant walk yet mite be some time well into the new year
pdb1
13,452 Posts Mon, Nov 7 2016 7:25 PM

fairyqueen:

There is but 1 tour Champion on WGT

ICONIAN, How she made it, I don't know, but she are the only one.
Lvl 104
Best to check out her stats, you clever people can find something there, I don't see any
Char

Iconian is an administrator as well . There is another Tour Champion . A prominent player that died . Who's name escapes me . His name does not show on the search . It is a commemorative appointment to Tour Champion . Like i said . There is no reason to think that it is a serious level for advancement .

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